Reflections of the Romantics: Wordsworth's 'I Wandered Lonely As A Cloud' (Transcript)
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Joe: [00:00:00] I wandered lonely as a cloud that floats on high over vales and hills when all at once I saw a crowd, a host of golden daffodils, beside the lake beneath the tree, fluttering and dancing in the breeze. 

Maiya: Welcome to Beyond the Verse, a poetry podcast brought to you by Poemanalysis.com and Poetry Today we're discussing I Wandered Lonely as a Cloud, also known as Daffodils by William Wordsworth. Thank you so much, Joe, for your reading at the start there of what is a very, very beautiful poem.

Now, please can you tell us a little bit about Wordsworth

Joe: I'd love to. So William Wordsworth was born in Cumberland in 1770 and by the standards of his era lived a remarkably long life. He died in 1850 at the age of 80 and for the last seven years of his life he served as poet laureate. , he is best known for launching the romantic era of [00:01:00] poetry

in particular with his 1798 book, Lyrical Ballads, which he co-authored with Samuel Taylor Coleridge And this kind of massively redefines the scope of English literature and continues to have verb, no, reverberations. Not verberberations, that would be a strange word. And continues to have reverberations to this day.

Now this poem was written in 1804, inspired by a walk he took. Near his home in the Lake District in 1802. And I know Maiya you're going to tell us a little bit more about this poem specifically, but that obviously is important because it's subsequent, strange word, the dates of this are important because it's after lyrical ballads.

So Wordsworth was already, uh, beginning to develop a big reputation for himself. He was beginning to be financially independent because lyrical ballads went through several different editions. And each time a new edition was published, he became more financially secure as a poet and was able to, what am I saying, why does that matter?

With each edition of Lyrical Ballads, he was [00:02:00] growing more financially secure, but he actually hadn't published any new material for a few years at this stage. So Maiya why don't you tell us a little bit more about this poem specifically and why it's so important?

Maiya: So, as Joe noted, this poem was written in 1804. It actually wasn't published in a collection until 1807. And this collection was called Poems in Two Volumes. This poem is widely regarded to be Wordsworth's most famous poem. Most famous poem. Now, before the podcast, Joe and I were talking about how, in 1995, this was actually voted the fifth favorite poem. This was actually voted the UK's 5th favourite poem. And I honestly believe that that legacy has withstand, has withstood, has withstood the test of time. This poem is one that gets quoted and re quoted and re quoted. That first opening line, I wandered lonely as a [00:03:00] cloud, is one that even people who don't read poetry and don't enjoy poetry will probably know.

Now, this is something that we're for sure going to dive into later in this podcast about this poem's legacy and how important it is in the grand scheme of the Romantic era and to modern literature even now. Now, as Jo mentioned, this poem was written only six years after this joint publication with Now, as Joe noted, this, I'm really not on the ball today. Now, as Joe noted, this poem was written when Wordsworth was around 34 years old. It was really only six years after that shared publication, Lyrical Ballads. And, where Lyrical Ballads had really created the romantic ideals and themes that Wordsworth really explores in this poem, this [00:04:00] I WANDERED LONELY AS A CLOUD really takes this to the next level. Now, Jo, I have to ask, where would you like

Joe: Well, I think it's only right that, well, I think it's only right that we begin with those opening lines because you're right, they are so famous, so iconic, and I think we need to sort of give them their due. So for readers, And listeners, I just said listeners because I'm, for listeners who aren't aware, this poem kind of extols the relationship between mankind and nature.

And this opening line might be a surprise. What light through yonder window breaks? Sorry, give me five. Just, I'll be right back, okay?

Maiya: That's alright.[00:05:00] [00:06:00] [00:07:00] [00:08:00] [00:09:00] [00:10:00] [00:11:00] [00:12:00] [00:13:00] 

Joe: So sorry about that. That was, I didn't realize, I had to go down and let her out because there's a key and, never mind. Um, right. Where was I? I think I was on the first line. Okay. We made it that far.

Maiya: Uh,

Joe: Okay. Lovely. Right then. Um, so you just asked me where would I like to begin? Okay, cool.

Well, I think it would only be appropriate to begin with that first line, because as you mentioned, it is so famous, so iconic, and I think perhaps slightly surprising for readers and listeners who may have an idea of this is something that really celebrates the connection between mankind and nature, because that word lonely obviously is.

rife with sort of negative connotations. The idea that the cloud is a symbol of something isolated, something cut off from the natural world. And of course, that also evokes the physical [00:14:00] separation in terms of the, however long it is in terms of miles between the earth and the sky. I mean, there is a sense here of being cut away from the natural world.

And yet actually what we see throughout this poem is that this image becomes indicative of something that is isolated. An example of the union between man and nature, not the separation between them. And I think that's a really fascinating way to open a poem by perhaps slightly wrong footing your readers.

But what do you think, Maiya 

Maiya: I couldn't agree more. I think it's also interesting to start, I couldn't agree more. I think it is particularly interesting to start a poem that is meant to be about connection with that word lonely. I also really love what Wordsworth does here in the sense that he creates that sort of, He creates the feeling of aimlessly wandering by using the cloud as a symbol.

Obviously, I wandered lonely as a cloud that floats on high hills, o'er vales and hills. That is not what it says. wandered lonely as [00:15:00] a cloud that floats on high, o'er vales and hills. You really get this sense that The poet and this cloud are directionless, he parallels the two of them and I, and I think actually that aimlessness and that directionless really serves to evolve the character of this speaker, because you begin to understand that they're actively, that they're actively seeking that isolation, it's something that brings them comfort, they want to be removed from, you know, the trappings of the everyday world.

So I. I think it's a really powerful opening to a poem that sets you up so well to understand the journey that the

Joe: Definitely. And I think one thing that's curious about this opening is the fact that we actually know the instance in which. I think one of the things interesting about this opening is we actually know the incident that inspired this poem. It was a walk with his sister Dorothy that happened two years prior in 1802, and obviously context [00:16:00] tells us that he wasn't alone.

And again, that word lonely really speaks to something I think that's going to go on to really shape the rest of Wordsworth's career, especially with regard to his long and ultimately unfinished poem, The Prelude, which is that Loneliness isn't necessarily linked to physical circumstance. You can be lonely in a crowd of people.

You can be lonely when you're, um, you know, with loved ones. Likewise, you can feel as though you are not lonely. Even if you are physically by yourself, it is a sort of a state of mind that's being captured here rather than a reflection of physical circumstance, because we know that he was with other people on this walk.

Maiya: I think you do have to look at the physical detail as well, right? The scene that Wordsworth is creating here is not a deeply depressing, moody, cloudy sky. You really get the impression that there is one single cloud in what is otherwise a lovely day. And part of me does wonder whether Whether [00:17:00] Wordsworth is actually using that to demonstrate that further, he's almost, he's almost a complement to that cloud. He is the single, maybe dark grey cloud, he is the single, perhaps he is the single dark cloud in the otherwise bright sky. And I, I do, and I do feel with this poem that, though it is very beautifully written, and there is some really gorgeous language, you do maintain that sense of slight Loneliness?

Joe: So is that a T EP? I didn't, I, I confess I hadn't, I had another tab open.

Maiya: Yeah, I didn't, I, let me, let me, no, no, I'll root back, but I, um. I do feel that Wordsworth actually, in many ways though, throughout this poem, it has beautiful language, some really gorgeous phrasing. He [00:18:00] really manages to reimagine what it is to be lonely, to, to me. To me, on every rereading I have of this poem, I don't necessarily see him depicted as, you know, what we've discussed in some of our previous Q& A episodes, that sad, lonely poet stereotype that so often is rooted to this poem.

But I really see him as someone who is enjoying that sense of isolation.

Joe: Yeah, I agree. And I think, as you say, we mentioned on one of our early Q and A episodes, we talked a little bit about stereotypes and whether or not the sad, lonely poet stereotype is a fair one. So if listeners would like to hear more about that and other questions that we answered, I implore them to go and check out some of our previous Q and A episodes.

But. It's worth saying that Wordsworth is kind of one of the key figures of the romantic era from which many of those archetypes are derived. So Wordsworth perhaps is not the best example of a kind of sad, lonely poet, but certainly in terms of what a poet is, somebody who is often white, often male, and writes about The natural world, flowers and [00:19:00] meadows and things.

I mean, a lot of that derives back to Wordsworth. And I think, you know, other members of the romantic era, if listeners aren't aware, would include people like John Keats, Lord Byron, Samuel Taylor Coolidge, who I mentioned earlier, and certainly some of those people really do fit the archetype. I mean, the likes of Keats, I think when we consider what the tragic, young, heartbroken, depressed, Sort of, um, cursed with talent, poet, archetype.

A lot of that is from him. And he was obviously hugely influenced by Wordsworth, although a little bit younger. I think whenever you go and read these poems individually, what you realize, what I certainly reflect upon is the fact that stereotypes and archetypes are almost always, stereotypes and archetypes almost always involve a blunting.

Of the reality, right? You have to smooth over the edges. Cause when you actually go back and look at individual poems or individual poets, even they're obviously a lot more nuanced because individuals and individual pieces of artwork are more nuanced. It's [00:20:00] only through hindsight that you look back and sort of assimilate various details between them to create an archetype.

I mean, if an archetypal poet is somewhere between Byron Keats and Wordsworth, well, that's a pretty big range of people already to attempt to triangulate,

so I didn't, I didn't tee up for anything at all there, but.

Maiya: no, no. I was like, how do I follow up with that? No, cause you are right. It's um, you're right. And it's always interesting to look, I think, particularly at this period where you have a pretty solid wealth of poets to look at who were all influenced and influencing each other. This is, this is a poem that is increasingly difficult to analyze in isolation. So, so I think we've got a job ahead of us for this episode, I must say, but it, But it is it, [00:21:00] but I must say that I think it adds so much to this poem that you can look at it with, alongside other poets who were inspired by Wordsworth, or poets who were even just writing in those same circles. As we say, his As we say, one of his most famous works was a co-written publication. It was a co-written collection.

That cannot be understated.

Joe: And I think it would be remiss of us when reading a poem like this, not to consider the importance of that context, but also the geographical context. I mean, this is a poem and a poet very closely associated with a particular place, and maybe we'll touch upon that as we look at the next few lines and I'll just read them.

So the first answer continues. When all at once I saw a crowd, a host of golden daffodils beside the lake beneath the trees, fluttering and dancing in the [00:22:00] breeze. And one of the things that I really enjoy about the final lines of that opening stanza is we kind of get a real sense of the breadth of this landscape.

We begin on high, almost looking down upon the valley from the vantage point of the cloud. But very quickly we get immersed in the sort of the reality on the ground there. So we've got the daffodils, of course, the defining image of this poem, but we also have the lake, the trees, the wind. We really get a sense of being on this walk with Wordsworth and the reference to the lake in particular, I think is really important because this poem was written not long after Wordsworth.

I've got this written down. Apologies. When did he move? Yes. Okay. I think that mention of the lake in particular is really important because this poem was written during the years in which Wordsworth was living in the Lake District in what is now called Dove Cottage, which I visited, and it's open to the public, the Wordsworth Trust, to set up a museum [00:23:00] there, which I implore listeners, uh, if you are in the area, if you are planning a trip to Lake DRIs to go, or if you're planning a trip to the late district to go and see the house, because it's a really.

unique way into getting an insight into this man. And he lived there between 1799 and 1808. So he was post lyrical ballads, but he was writing some of his most important work. So he moved there post the writing and the publication of lyrical ballads, but it, I'm pretty sure I've got a tickle.

Maiya: Sorry?

Joe: How the fuck do people do live TV and so on?

Maiya: I have no idea.

Joe: So he lived in Dove Cottage between 1799 and 1808. So post the publication of lyrical ballads, but while he was writing some of his most important work, he was beginning drafts of the prelude there. He obviously wrote this poem and others. So it's a really interesting way of kind of gleaning an insight into him.

But of course, [00:24:00] with any great artist who is particularly associated with a great work, particular place. The relationship is symbiotic. So the lakes provided a really important source of inspiration for Wordsworth. But can you hear that? Okay, we're good. So of course, the lakes provided a really important source of inspiration for Wordsworth, none more so than in this poem.

But if, but naturally, When you have somebody who writes back against that place so famously, our conception of the lakes is informed by his writing. So the relationship between them in hindsight is really symbiotic. They inspired him, but in turn, he defines the way in which those places are known to a lot of people who have never visited them, and even many people who still live there.

So I think that relationship can't be overstated. The importance of physical place in the writing of this poem. And I know Maiya that, you know, you wanted to touch upon the contrast, perhaps, with the way that modern readers. might look at those scenes of nature. I mean, because obviously there's an innate contrast [00:25:00] whenever you write a poem rooted in the countryside between the urban landscape and the rural.

But you wanted to touch upon how it might actually be different for readers in 1804 versus readers for 2024.

Maiya: Absolutely. It's one of those criticisms that's leveled at the romantics a lot of the time in that they have this real idealization of natural landscapes. That is part and parcel of what it means to be a romantic poet. I personally don't think that's a bad thing. I think it is I personally don't think that's a problem. I think it is so central to the genre that you can't escape that. However, I personally believe that the reason that this is criticized so often is that in the modern world, we do have a very different conception of what it means to be in the countryside, especially in the UK, um, especially in the UK, you know, We have vastly improved transport links.

We live [00:26:00] in, though we live in urban cities, take London for example, there is a real push, more so now than ever, more so now than ever, to include green spaces, to make sure that people feel as if they're living cleanly. This was not the case. In the 1780s, 1900s, you're looking at a period of rapid, rapid industrialization. There are thousands of poems written specifically about how dirty and disgusting London was. Now, Wordsworth actually grew up, Wordsworth actually grew up and studied in Cambridge, which was very much within commuting distance of London. So, We cannot understate how important it was at the time to be in an urban landscape, be in a modern city, to be in an urban landscape, in a city in which dirt and grime and filth and [00:27:00] smoke filled the air.

It was not, you know, I don't want to fall into that trap of saying everywhere was horrible, but there was certainly a different level of things like cleanliness, a different concept of what it meant to be urban. Out in the open air now For many, many poets, for many people who lived in those urban areas at the time, retreating to the countryside. would have actually provided a very, very different way of life. Now, Wordsworth encapsulates this so beautifully in this poem, in that you're not just taking a step away from, you're not just taking a step away from maybe the more physical elements, you know, the dirt and the illness, but also the crowding.

You know, these places were so overpopulated, their, these places were so overpopulated, housing was different, the streets looked different, there were [00:28:00] markets lining every street as opposed to your modern conception of shops. We are so far removed from what it would have been like at that time that, I think what Wordsworth does really brilliantly here is really emphasise how the countryside provided an escape.

And that is what I always find with this, because you're right, the Lake District, for so many people that live in the UK, is seen as this real jewel. It's an escape, it's peaceful, it's tranquil, it's quiet. And so many people, even people that have never been before, spend a large portion of their lives saying, Oh, it's on my bucket list to go to the Lake District.

I can't wait to go. I'm going to have a rural retreat there. And Wordsworth was so instrumental in creating that vision. But, sorry, I'll wrap up and pass over to you. Um, but I really find that that contrast is drawn out by Wordsworth in that third line that you read. All at once I saw [00:29:00] a crowd, a host of golden daffodils.

He leads you into believing that there might be a crowd of people arriving, but it instead. Is this, but instead it's this plethora of golden daffodils, this symbol of nature, of vitality of the countryside. Now, what effect does that have, Jo?

Joe: Sorry, just bear with me for one second. Yeah. Okay. So, well, first of all, I just want to touch upon how fascinating a point that you've just made. And so first of all, I just want to touch upon the fascinating point you just made. It's not something I'd really considered because again, we all fall into the traps of universalizing our own experience and sort of.

Projecting that back. And even today, we tend to think somewhat, um, in, we tend to think in somewhat binary terms about urban and rural spaces. But you're absolutely right, Maiya It's important to note that compared to the urban spaces of. The early 19th century, [00:30:00] our urban space is a phenomenally green, phenomenally clean, phenomenally easy to move through.

I mean, I was in, um, one of London's parks last spring and there was a great variety of daffodils and, you know, you could see sort of over the hills and over the meadows, even though you were in an urban space, that kind of access to greenery, that access to nature, which we take for granted in many sort of developed cities in Europe and elsewhere wouldn't have been the case.

So you're absolutely right to think that for Wordsworth, it would have been far more of a dichotomy between rural life and urban life. And that escape is 21st century. But just touching on the daffodils that you mentioned, first of all, just, For any listeners who might not be aware or might perhaps not live in places where daffodils grow daffodils are Did have this up, but I've got rid of it.

You're probably thinking yes, but you know, what a yellow plant [00:31:00] is I do I do right now. Thesis.

Maiya: A bright yellow flower with a trumpet.

Joe: right? I know I know

Maiya: Ah,

Joe: not to do a riff on Narcissus. Um,

Maiya: deep jives.

Joe: so for any listeners who might not be aware, or might want just a reminder, daffodils are yellow flowers. Normally they come from the Narcissus family and ~they're generally associated with spring, with new life, with the beginnings of spring.~

~I've already said spring. ~They're generally associated with new life and with the early stages of spring. So obviously in the Northern Hemisphere, we tend to see daffodils come out in sort of March. I'll reset that because it sounded very uncertain. So in the Northern Hemisphere, we tend to think of

Maiya: In March.

Joe: out in March time, and they are very associated in the UK with the country of Wales.

It's the national flower of Wales and they're very, you know, attractive, pretty plants. But I love the point you make about, again, words with slightly wrong footing us, that hint that we're about to be introduced to people only to be introduced to this, this plant. Wall of flowers. And I think that word host is fascinating because it works on so many levels.

Now a host [00:32:00] has a slightly archaic use to mean an army so that we could read that line as an army of flowers. And the one hand that could emphasize the scale, the sheer number of individual flowers that he can see. But of course that word host, generally speaking, has far more positive connotations, connotations of a welcome.

You host somebody in your home, you watch TV and you see your familiar television host, that association with something. Warm, something familiar, something that we can rely on. So I think it's a really lovely way of introducing this flower. That's going to go on to define the poem in many respects, because immediately we feel on the one hand welcomed into this scene, but also we get the sense of scale because of the archaic use of the word host.

Maiya: Um, I was going to jump in on the narcissus point, but just to summarize. I'm literally just going to summarize it as it was a Greek myth in which Narcissus was staring at his reflection in the water and he was so beautiful that he was [00:33:00] turned into a flower as a punishment. Great. Okay. I think that's a brilliant point and actually something I've not really considered about that word, a host, you immediately feel the warmth of those. I think that color golden even further emphasizes just how bright and welcoming and. Light the speaker feels by comparison. I do think it's interesting though, that you mentioned that the daffodil comes from the Narcissus plant, because for listeners, you aren't aware Narcissus, the tale of the Narcissus plant actually comes from Greek mythology.

Narcissus was a character who was widely regarded as incredibly handsome and actually, In Greek myth, there is na. An in Greek myth. There is a narrative that says he spent so long staring at his own reflection that he fell in love with himself and was turned into a flower by the waterside. As [00:34:00] a punishment, he had to continue to stare at himself for the rest of his life.

Now. I think when we are looking at a romantic id, I think when we're looking at the romantic ideals within this poem and how so often romantic poetry uses nature as a form of self-expression, I think it's really interesting that Wordsworth uses a narciss as plant and narciss flower to reflect his own intentions

Joe: I absolutely love that point. And I think it really speaks to something we're going to talk about later on in the poem, which is that the lines between the human world and the natural world do get blurred here. And if we just take that example of Narcissus, when Narcissus admires his own reflection, is he truly admiring himself?

Or is he admiring the way that his beauty is mediated through nature? And that line becomes really blurred. I mean, we don't want to make this a philosophy seminar. That could be a whole other thing. But again, what we find in this poem is something really similar. There is no sort of moments of physical reflection, nothing as direct as that.

But what we have here is a speaker who is viewing themselves, who is [00:35:00] exploring elements of their own personality through the lens of nature. And ultimately those things get conflated over the course of the poem.

Maiya: And I always find that there's a real difference between the way in which you are introduced to the speaker. And the way in which you're introduced to the daffodils. Now, we've already mentioned that this hook, that the speaker, we've already mentioned that the speaker occupies a slightly more loose and, What's the word I'm looking for?

We've already, we've already discussed how the speaker occupies a little bit more of a transient relationship to the nature that they're walking in. They obviously have, they understand themselves to be a little bit looser. They are not as grounded or as centered. The daffodils by contrast are everywhere and they are grounded.

I always love that [00:36:00] you really, I always love that when you read this poem, you understand the sense of scale because You get that panoramic view, right? Beside the lake, beneath the trees, fluttering and dancing in the breeze. Although they have this real sense of movement and, although they have this sense of movement and scale, you do understand that they are inherently part of that landscape.

And by contrast, the speaker doesn't feel like that.

Joe: So I think I've got, I've just thought of another riff I would like to do on daffodils, but, um, but I think that's great. So let me just, let me, how do I phrase this? Okay. Um, yeah, just be like, is there anything else about daffodil, about what, or I can just dive in if you want, it's up to you.

Maiya: Yeah, go for it. Dive in if you want. Um, a

Joe: Just one more thing on daffodils and sort of the etymology of the word. So the word is generally a. agree to be derived from the word Asphodel, which is [00:37:00] another type of flower. And again, Asphodel also has an allusion to Greek mythology, in particular elements of the Greek underworld.

There's a man on a bicycle, not bicycle, motorbike, bicycle. I wouldn't stop a podcast for a bicycle. Right. So just one more thing on daffodils. The word itself is actually generally agreed to derive from the word asphodel, which in itself is another type of flower, but also has associations with Greek mythology, in particular the Greek underworld.

And I think this really captures something slightly unusual about the flower and also the poem itself, which is that the daffodil, despite being a symbol of spring and therefore growth and new life, is also commonly associated with death. It's the flower. Um, it's a flower commonly associated with lots of different cancer charities.

And of course, as I've just mentioned, that mythological grounding is very much related to death in the underworld. And as you mentioned about Narcissus, Narcissus is turned into a flower after his death. So this [00:38:00] relationship between new life. On the one hand in spring and death, I think it's a really interesting one.

And it, it touches on one of the things about this poem that I find most interesting, which is that relationship between brevity on the one hand and permanence on the other. So if we just sort of move forward onto the next stanza, which begins continuous as the stars that shine. And I think that's a really fascinating image, because what Wordsworth is doing is he's taking a symbol of permanence, the stars in the sky.

Now, of course, physicists will tell us that the stars in the sky are not permanent, but relative to human life, we can see why they would be a symbol of permanence. They exist for thousands, if not millions of years. To take that symbol and to transpose it onto a daffodil, which is a flower associated with a very particular time of year that will not Live year round it will die in many ways to sort of the in many ways Daffodils kind of represent a real sense of brevity and fragility of [00:39:00] life.

They appear and they die relatively quickly I think is a really interesting way of kind of accessing what wordsworth is trying to do here because remember this is a Because again, it's important to note that this is a memory,

you know, now they're all gonna go They go see they feel left out. They go one goes and they go. Oh, yeah, I'll do that

Maiya: Wow. They really go for it, don't they?

Joe: Because it's important to note that this entire poem, it takes the form of a memory. This is not something that's happening right now. So for me, that relationship between brevity, fragility on the one hand, and permanence on the other, speaks to something about the way we experience the natural world.

Because on the one hand, our relationship to nature is fleeting, not only because the seasons change and the plants die, but also because we ourselves change and age and eventually perish. [00:40:00] But the memories that those experiences yield. Ultimately last forever. And of course, when you put those memories in a written form or a painting, they last for future generations as well.

So I think that relationship between the finite nature. So I think that relationship between the finite nature of those flowers, the finite nature of the speaker's life, but the permanence that memories and artistic depictions of nature create is one of the key tensions in the permanence. One of the things I find brilliant about it.

Anything? Oh, sorry.

Maiya: That's a brilliant No, no, no, that's a great point. That's an absolutely brilliant point, Jo, and I And I absolutely agree. I think it's one of the more fascinating comparisons that Wordsworth makes in this poem. I also really want to explore that. I also really want to [00:41:00] explore that sense of continuity. You know, you raise very rightly that the stars, yes, to a human life may seem like they are permanent and daffodils are not. They are something that is cyclical, but also let's not forget the stars aren't present throughout the day. They, they disappear and reappear every single night.

Now, Now to me, now in my understanding, what Wordsworth is also trying to recall here is that this memory is one that does the same. It recurs to him 24 7, he is constantly thinking about it. He even says in his final stanza, For oft when on my couch I lie in vacant or in pensive mood, they flash upon that inward eye.

That means he is actively sitting there and recalling this memory in order to feel the sense of peace he felt when he was there. Now, I'm trying to say [00:42:00] now this adds to the power of the poem because not only is he recalling a peaceful moment But he is telling you that it gives him so much comfort that he will continue to recall it almost for the rest of his life

Joe: No, I think that's right. I think that's great. I'm just, I'm trying to work

Maiya: that. I could throw to you. Yeah,

Joe: I think it's my

Maiya: you can break

Joe: So should I say, do you want to say,

Maiya: turn?

Joe: do we do the entry into a break? I can never remember.

Maiya: No, I usually just go

Joe: we're doing a, we're doing a code. This is fun. This feels like we're real

Maiya: I saw

Joe: Okay. So I'll just riff a little bit on Romantics and then I'll say Wordsworth 20. Are we happy with Wordsworth 20 as a code?

Right. Lovely. So. [00:43:00] So Maiya and I would love to talk about Wordsworth and the other Romantic Poets for hours and hours on end. But of course, we cannot do that on the podcast. But if listeners want to learn more about Wordsworth, Keats, Byron, Shelley, or any of the other Romantic Poets, the movement itself, any of the forms they used, they can sign up for a Poetry subscription at poemanalysis.Com There are thousands of resources available to help anyone with poetry, whether it's a new stu There are thousands of resources available to Targeted for all levels of poetry, whatever your interest in the subject. So we are very happy to announce that people who are listening to this episode can go to the website now and use the code Wordsworth20 to get 20 percent off either monthly or yearly subscriptions to Poetry Now only the first few people to use this code will get access to it. So make sure as soon as you finish this episode, go to poemanalysis.com use the code Wordsworth20 for 20 percent off Poetry And we [00:44:00] cannot wait to see you there. Back to the podcast. Hello, hello there.

Maiya: Brilliant.

Joe: Well, you're very kind.

Maiya: That was very smooth. Um, I don't know if you want to touch briefly on, um, rhyme scheme or if we can touch on it later when he does,

Joe: Does he break it? No,

Maiya: breaks

Joe: break it? It's A, A, A, B, A, B, C, C, right?

Maiya: Yeah,

Joe: No, I think, um, what was

Maiya: Maybe I was just

Joe: Well, I think, uh, we can, yeah, I mean, we could just, I think it's quite good actually that you've, you've just briefly jumped to the final stanza because I think it allows us to be a little bit more fluid in terms of where we look at. So I would like to talk about those lines again because, um, his wife wrote them, which is kind of wild.

The, um, the, the, the, in the

Maiya: Which ones?

Joe: stanza, they flash upon that inward eye, which is the bliss of solitude, which, and he said it was the best lines in the poem. And I thought it'd be interesting very much as one of those, like being nerdy bit, not, not a big bit[00:45:00] 

Maiya: I mean, I'll, I'll throw it back to you. I'll just be like, welcome back to the podcast now, Jo. I know you have a fun fact about the lines we were just discussing. Welcome back to the second half of this podcast. Now we're opening this section with a fun fact, Jo. I know you have something to say about those

Joe: thanks Maya. So before the break, Maya read a couple of lines just from the end of the poem. I'm just going to repeat them now. So in the final stanza, Wordsworth writes, They flash upon that inward eye, which is the bliss of solitude. And when the um, and the they in those lines refers to the pleasant memories that Maiya mentioned before the break.

And one of the things that's really interesting about these, now the interesting thing about these lines is that actually those two lines were written by Wordsworth's wife, Mary Hutchinson. Which is, those lines were actually written by Wordsworth's wife. Words, those lines were actually written by Wordsworth's wife, [00:46:00] Mary Hutchinson. And he said they were the best lines in the poem.

It's okay. I'm not being robbed. And he said they were the best lines in the poem. And I just like to linger first of all, on the lines themselves, and then perhaps talk a little bit about the significance of the, of the fact that he himself did not write them. Now, the lines themselves, I think, I'm not sure I entirely agree with what are the best in the poem, but there's some of the most interesting.

Line which ends, flash upon the inward eye. Now the inward eye is a really interesting way of thinking about memory and thinking about creative expression. I mean, in many ways, I actually think this image almost leaps forward. More than 200 years and could be applied to kind of surrealist imagery in the way that the surrealists considered artistic expression.

That idea of the inward eye is a kind of mediation between lived conscious experience and unconscious experience and memory. And that's where creativity lies. I think is a really interesting. Way of thinking about those [00:47:00] things, but the line, which is the bliss of solitude, I think ties the poem together really beautifully because it links back to that first line lonely as a cloud, which, as we mentioned, read in isolation could actually be a negative expression.

But this line specifies that that solitude can be a source of joy as well as a source of. Pain or sadness.

Maiya: Um, oh, I have a point. I have a point. Um, the fact that his wife wrote those lines, I, I love that you touch, I keep saying I love, I love, I'm interested in how you touched on the fact that this could be, that this could be a mediation of creative expression. Because as you said, if it was written by his wife, I certainly understand that perhaps for someone who is maybe not as creative or someone who's probably watched him [00:48:00] work. Actually, sorry, hold on. Now, one of the things that Joe and I discussed before this podcast is one of Wordsworth's very famous sayings. He says that poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful emotions. Now, this Now that claim, I think, sits quite boldly in contrast to the one in this poem, because, because I look at that, and if it was written by his wife, I understand that line to almost be a witnessing of the way in which Wordsworth creates poetry, for someone who maybe doesn't write, or isn't creative in that sense, to watch someone work and create such a stunning piece of, to watch someone write and create such a stunning piece of work, must seem like quite an internal, and, must seem like quite Must seem like quite a quiet and internal endeavor, but for Wordsworth, he doesn't feel that way.

He [00:49:00] feels like poetry for him is just an expression of everything he's feeling. He really struggles to but for Wordsworth, you really are under the impression that from this claim, he is someone who maybe leans more towards being, but from Wordsworth with the claim that he makes, you actually understand that maybe he struggles to contain, he struggles to contain the poetry that he wants to write. It seems more of an overspill or an overflowing of, overflowing of creative energy. But, but the fact that his wife wrote these lines, you But once it's pointed out that his wife wrote these lines, I think they do sit in quite stark contrast to the rest of this poem.

They are a little bit, they're a little bit more abstracted, they're a little [00:50:00] bit They're a little bit more abstracted. They're certainly less understanding of that direct connection between the memory and the speaker. So I love the idea that perhaps she's viewing him in a completely different way than he's viewing himself.

And I, I certainly think that adds a level. I certainly think that adds a layer of richness to this poem that you probably wouldn't otherwise have if it was solely mediated by one person.

Joe: Absolutely. And I think one of the things, absolutely. And what was that? Someone's playing the bassoon. Absolutely. And it touches on something that I think is not particularly well understood in kind of literary history and the literary world, which is the importance of people's friends and spouses in the editing process and in the writing process.

And unfortunately, you know, if we look at some prominent examples, what we often see is. Male writers who perhaps don't credit their wives or girlfriends or [00:51:00] friends for the role they played in artistic production. So a couple of sort of recent prominent examples that have come to light is it seems as though large sections of F.

Scott Fitzgerald's work including the novel The Great Gatsby may well have actually been written by Zelda, his wife. And the problems that you have with regard to heaping praise upon these individuals, usually men, and completely ignoring the impact, in many ways, the very direct impact, the contribution of entire lines, as we see in this poem, and perhaps in the case of Zelda as well.

We have, we find these, and they are normally women, we find these women being written out of literary history, and the role that they played, not only as editors, but in many ways as co authors has been lost. And I think that, in many ways, that has been used to kind of perpetuate the idea of male artistic.

Individual torture genius when actually what we know of the way these relationships often worked in [00:52:00] reality was that they were deeply collaborative. So I think it's important not only to flag the way in which Mary Hutchinson's contributions differ from Wordsworth's poem in tone the way that Myers just explored, but also just to point them out in their own right and to say that actually, Some of the best lines in this poem, Wordsworth himself admitted, were not written by him and perhaps we should be thinking about this poem as a co-authored piece.

Maiya: And perhaps slightly controversially, let's not forget that he wrote his own sister out of this memory. He's exploring a situation in which, in which a walk with family is probably one of the most treasured experiences you can have, and yet when he recalls the memory, his sister is nowhere to be seen.

Joe: And yes, I think that's, I think, yeah, I think I was, I

Maiya: that in there, a little critique.

Joe: without, without, I mean, I don't know enough about the Zelda one to, to make anything bolder, but I'm sure you've, you might've heard of that as well. Yeah. Um, anyway, um,[00:53:00] 

Maiya: Um, I can, I can pull it

Joe: no, no, I can go, no, I can actually jump back to the

Maiya: critical with no point. Um,

Joe: I just want to go back to something that Maiya mentioned a little bit earlier on, which was kind of. One of Wordsworth's principles that was outlined in the preface to lyrical ballads, and again, it reads.

That poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful emotions. And I, I think this chimes really instantly with that kind of tension I mentioned earlier on between brevity and permanence, because that word spontaneous speaks to an immediacy, an urgency that when inspiration strikes, you should write it down.

As I mentioned earlier on, this almost feels more akin to something you might expect to read in a surrealist manifesto. The idea of that immediacy, that idea of not rationalizing creativity, but simply expressing it as it appears. It's really interesting because it, it doesn't seem particularly Appropriate for Wordsworth, because what we know of this poet is that this was a guy who relentlessly [00:54:00] edited and revised and mediated on his own experiences.

I mean, this, this poem, for example, we've mentioned it was based on a walk he took in 1802, not written for two years. I mean, it's not a long poem. He didn't sit down to write it for over two years. It then wasn't published for a further three, and it was actually republished in a revised version in 1815.

This idea of the spontaneity of expression feels at odds with him as a poet and the way that he worked. I mean, the most prominent example I mentioned at the top of the episode that he lives a quite remarkable long life, 80 years. He was working on a version of the Prelude which remained unfinished at his death for over 50 years.

That doesn't strike me as particularly spontaneous. So I wonder, is there anything, this is a fucking hard question, so you'd have to answer it. Um, but I wonder, you know, is there anything to read into that relationship between spontaneity and revision? Is there anything, is there a contradiction there or am I missing something?[00:55:00] 

Maiya: I think perhaps, I think the fact he worked on a poem for over 50 years and still didn't finish it is quite frankly, crazy, to be honest. But I must say, I think what Wordsworth does brilliantly is managed to capture perhaps the spontaneity of the moment. But also, this poem is so well formatted, it is rhymed A B A B C C.

People naturally, generally when you look at poets, as you say, within the Surrealist genre, when you look at people who do potentially write more so in the moment, It tends to be free verse. We don't naturally talk in rhyme. Yes, perhaps we have a natural cadence and a natural meter that you can replicate across multiple poems, but rhyme is not something that naturally comes to you as a speaker, nevermind as a poet now.

I think it's fascinating to look at [00:56:00] a poet who so evidently claims that these are spontaneous choices, when actually rhyme itself is a tool, it's a skill. And though I don't doubt for a second that Wordsworth was an incredibly established poet by this point, he probably knew, he was probably able to preemptive, he was probably able to preempt his stylistic choices, but I don't doubt for a second that this went through.

three, four, five revisions, but perhaps slightly in contrast to, but perhaps slightly in contrast to that. I do think, I do think when you look at the emotion within this poem, and especially the emotion within, hold on, what am I trying to say? But I must admit, I'm hesitant to critique him on that point because what he does so [00:57:00] brilliantly, as I said before, is capture the spontaneity of the moment.

For listeners who haven't read the poem, For listeners, is the prelude on the site before I say this?

Joe: Probably.

Maiya: Let me have a look before I direct them somewhere that's not even on there. Okay, there's an extract. Fine. Um, for any listeners who haven't read the prelude or any of its extracts, there is Boat Stealing on the site. So go to Poemanalysis.com and check that out. It is one of the most impressive poems in the enormity of the feeling that it describes.

You really have this sense of immediate and You really have the sense of immediate and striking power. Now, I think what Now, I think Wordsworth's manif Blah blah blah blah. Now, I think Wordsworth's manifesto in Poetry Being the Spontaneous Overflow of Powerful [00:58:00] Emotions, yes, is maybe just a very, very literary is maybe just a very literary way of saying that he has learned how to mediate emotions.

In the moment, and create a scene. Do I think it didn't go through revisions? No.

Joe: I think you're right, and I think actually just as you were speaking, I suppose one thing, if we were looking to sort of be generous to Wordsworth and to hold him to his own definition of poetry, I suppose it's perfectly possible to imagine the fact that The spontaneous overflow of emotions don't need to be at the point of seeing the flowers.

It could be at the moment the memory struck him, struck that inward eye that we mentioned earlier on. At that moment, he felt the need to go back and to write or revise. I mean, there's no reason at all that revision can't be a spontaneous thing either. So I think, Let's be generous to Wordsworth and to say that he's not contradicting himself with his many revisions, but back to the poem itself I’d just like to jump a couple of stanzas back actually and look at the end of [00:59:00] stanza two So again in this stanza Wordsworth is describing the flowers and he says 10, 000 sorai at a glance tossing their heads in a sprightly dance And I think I'd like to focus on that last line in particular because of obviously on the one hand He's simply personifying the flowers by saying that they're dancing and I think what this does You Is it brings that conflation I mentioned earlier on into focus?

Because if you think about the way this poem begins, it begins with a human figure, likening themselves to something in the natural world. So almost dragging themselves toward nature on that kind of spectrum. What we have here is the other way round. We have nature being personified, nature being imbued with human characteristics of personality, almost suggesting a nature is again, moving In the other direction, closer to mankind.

And the reason I'd like to focus on that is because I think the poem's conclusion sees that union finally achieved. If we look at the final line to the poem, and then my heart with [01:00:00] pleasure fills and dances with the daffodils. We have that sense of the mankind. We have the sense of the human figure in the poem and the natural scenes in the poem having kind of met in the middle, and they seem to kind of be able to experience the same thing simultaneously.

And obviously we have that repetition again of the personification, the flowers dancing, but we also have the way in which the heart is described as being With pleasure fills. And I almost imagine that to be like a pool of water, perhaps, or like a stream. What we have once again is the human appears more like nature and the nature appears more like humankind ~to the point where they almost become indistinguishable in those two last two lines.~

~And ~to the point where they almost become indistinguishable in those last two lines. And I think it's such a beautiful way of ending the I'd love to get your thoughts on, on that relationship more broadly or the end of the whichever you'd like.

Maiya: And I think you can absolutely take even the final two lines of each stanza, to be honest, and explore that journey as the human comes closer and closer to nature, and nature comes closer to the human. At first, we just see a [01:01:00] host. At first, I'll just reiterate, solely the final, just to briefly reiterate, the couplets that end the four stanzas that make up this poem. Beside the lake, beneath the trees, fluttering and dancing in the breeze, that stands a one. Ten thousand saw I at a glance, tossing their heads in sprightly dance, that's two. I gazed and gazed, but little thought, what wealth the show to me had brought. And then it closes with, uh, Then my heart with pleasure fills and dances with the daffodils.

Now, even taking these alone, you see, you really understand that it feels as if this world is closing in on itself a little bit. At first, you have this speaker who seems very separate, very, who seems very separate from the scene. They are simply witnessing, and with each closing [01:02:00] couplet, you get a little step closer.

He, he goes from seeing a fluttering and dancing, but not really understanding the specific movements, to a sprightly dance. This is even bigger. This is more bold. This is a louder, this is a louder sense of movement. To then describing it as a show, something that has been put on for him, something that he has, what's the word, something that he has engaged in, and not only that, but in the closing couplet, he becomes a part of that show, a part of those daffodils.

Now I really love that progression, and I think the rhyme scheme lends itself to that as well, because you are going from something that has a very, very regular rhythm, a very distinct A B. A very distinct A B, A B, C C. There is such a natural way in which this poem evolves, and it makes it [01:03:00] really concrete by the end that you understand the completion that the speaker feels as well.

There is no disjointedness

Joe: And I think if we look at each individual stanza's rhyme scheme as kind of representative of that journey, it becomes even more apparent because if you look at the first four lines, A B A B, you have alternating rhymes, that idea of Contrast, but also perhaps interlocking. And if we look at the A and the B as being representative, perhaps of mankind and nature, they are next to each other, but they're not the same.

They are interlocking, but they're clearly distinct. To end each stanza with a CC with a couplet implies the union is kind of complete, that they have become indistinguishable from one another.

Maiya: And especially when you look at that last stanza, I mean, if you take the final If you take the final word from, and actually one thing that I think is always worth noting in rhymed poems is to look at those end words, because they are the ones that [01:04:00] leave you with the strongest impression, they leave you with the biggest impact. Now, that opening stanza has cloud, hills, crowd, daffodils, trees, breeze. You are inundated by natural imagery. By contrast, when we get to the final stanza, and the speaker is and the speaker is exploring how And the speaker is exploring how they mediate on memory and emotion. You have lie, mood, I, solitude. These are things that are very physical, very human. And yet that closing couplet fills and daffodils.

You are completely drawn in by the world. You're completely drawn in by the natural world in spite of having these human emotions. I think that's a really, really stunning way to

Joe: couldn't agree more. And I think as we often do on this podcast, it'd be nice just to sort of reflect on the poem's place in literary history and where it kind of takes Wordsworth. So. As we mentioned, actually, in a recent episode we did on Edgar Allan Poe's The Raven, which again, if listeners haven't checked that out, I suggest you go and do so, because it [01:05:00] was a really interesting conversation.

The relationship between a piece of work and its critical response is something that never ceases to interest me. This poem was actually fairly poorly reviewed, as was the collection it was published in when it was first released. In fact, you know, continuing, in fact, continuing the point we made earlier on about Not wishing to oversimplify what a romantic poet is or what a poet is.

Lord Byron, one of Wordsworth's fellow romantic poets actually savaged this, this, um, savaged a bit much. Lord Byron, one of Wordsworth's fellow romantic poets actually was extremely critical of this collection. So, It's, it's another example of critics not always perhaps judging poetry correctly at the time, as much as any judgment on poetry can be correct, because I mean, the afterlife this poem's had is absolutely remarkable, not only as I said, that it greatly informs kind of the public consciousness when it comes to places like the Lake District, but also in a poetic sense, many, many artists have [01:06:00] been influenced by this.

It remains hugely popular with readers. Maiya mentioned earlier on the 1995 poll that had it. As the UK's fifth favorite poem, but I think to bring it right up to the present day, of course, this poem is very strongly evoked in Taylor Swift's most recent album, in which there is a song called The Lakes, in which she says, and I quote, in which he says, and I quote, take me to the lakes where all the poets went to die.

So this idea of this poem and others in Wordsworth's canon, having this rich afterlife that permeates the kind of poetic community, the academic community, general readers and poets. you know, songwriters up to the present day, demonstrates it's enduring strength and quality.

Maiya: I think only further exacerbated by his later poems as well. You know, words worth. Wordsworth's legacy is defined by a changing relationship to nature, too. The [01:07:00] Prelude, as I mentioned before, is a real demonstration of power. And just to read a few lines from that, just to read a few lines from that, that directly really contrast I Wandered Lonely as a Cloud, which has this very kind of light and ethereal feeling to it.

These few lines from the Prelude. are, by contrast, dark and looming. Uh, where was I? With an unswerving line, I fixed my view upon the summit of a craggy ridge. The horizon's utmost boundary, far above, was nothing but the stars and the grey sky. She was an elfin pinnace. Lustily, I dipped my oars into the silent lake, and as I rose upon the stroke, my boat went heaving through the water like a swan. There is a real difference between these two and, and I think if you're going to explore Wordsworth, please go onto the site, explore all of his work from [01:08:00] start to finish, you will see such a rich catalogue of, such a rich catalogue of an exploration of innocence and, what's the word I'm looking for, it's just completely lost me, you will see such a rich exploration of things like You will see an incredible, incredible bounty of work from poems that mediate on nature as it reflects on one's innocence. You will see poems like the Prelude that have this really dark turn. And you will understand that You know, and as Joe mentioned, Wordsworth had a very, very long life for poets at the time, for people at the time.

He had, he had a body of work that we are so lucky to have [01:09:00] because it explores how so many of these poets who perhaps died at a younger age might have gone on to write. Now, Wordsworth, now Wordsworth's relationship to nature was continuously changing. And I love that he actually creates such a different view on what the romantic genre is. Was from its moment of conception to how it ended. Um, do you

Joe: No, I think, I think, I don't think so. We should decide, Oh, do we know what we're doing next week? So if I've got, I've got, again, I'm just still working off that same list. There might be a more updated one, but we've done the top three because Daffodils was three. The next one on the list is The Tiger by William Blake.

The next one after that is Ozymandias. Um, because I could not stop for death. I mean, do you have any, I think we'd, we'd be fine to choose any of those really.

Maiya: I mean, if we do the tiger, I guess it kind of leads on from some of the things we've touched on, like urbanization. Right. Um, okay. Um, [01:10:00] what was I going to close up with? Um, I'll just say, uh, we might've had how it ended. Unfortunately, that is all we have time for today. So thank you so much for that conversation, Joe.

I think. One of the things I love about having conversations like this is I do learn so much more about this poem even though I'm coming at it from someone who wants to explore the things I already think about it, so this is just so wordy. What am I trying to say? But unfortunately that is all we have time for today.

Thank you so much Jo for such a fascinating conversation on a poem that has had such an incredible legacy. Now next week we are actually touching on something we explored today, which is urbanisation. We are looking at William Blake's The Tiger. Now I can't wait for that.

Joe: And goodbye from me and the whole team at permanalysis. com. See you next time.

Maiya: [01:11:00] Woohoo!